Monday, December 28, 2009

Would you circumcise your daughter?




I was talking with a guy friend of mine who'd recently had his first child: a perfect baby girl.  He chatted happily about the joys of being a new parent, and then mentioned an upcoming appointment.  "Oh, just a usual checkup?" I asked casually.  "No, its time for her snip-snip" he replied, equally casually.  I was confused.  "You know, her circumcision of course", my friend clarified.  Oh, right... that.  I asked how he and his wife had come to the decision to have the procedure done on their daughter.  Now it was my friend's turn to look confused.  "Well, everyone does it, don't they?".  "Far from it, actually." I replied.  "But I'm interested in your reasons, so go on".  And he did. 

He talked about how he wanted his daughter's genitals to look like his wife's, so she wouldn't be confused later in life.  At this point, I wondered if he also intended to get his daughter a nose job, boob job, etc.  He mentioned not wanting her to be teased in the locker room someday.  I stopped him.  "Wait, was she born with a deformity?".  He said of course not, but that an un-cut vagina was just funny looking.  Then he went on about how dirty they are, and being cut makes them cleaner.  He said little girls don't know how to wash themselves anyway, and it would be gross.  He said her husband would be glad for it someday as well.  I stopped him there too.  Would her husband also be glad that his wife felt less pleasure?  My friend was confused about that.  In his mind, removing parts of his daughter's genitals didn't mean she'd experience less pleasure.  Right, how silly of me to think that.  I had a million more things to say and ask, but I tried to stay civil.

This conversation was clearly becoming strained and painful for both of us, but he felt the need to defend his decision further.  My friend then told me about how so many women get yeast infections, UTI's, and such, and that the circumcision might prevent that, and maybe even lessen her risks of some STD's too.  I'd seen these supposed studies, and also the ones that debunked them.  I guess he'd missed those, and also missed the fact that not a single medical association in the world promotes this "procedure".  It was obvious he was doing something he thought was good for his child.  I just looked at him, baffled.  He then stammered on about how he was the parent and he had every right to make this decision for his child.  Everyone else in his family had done it, and they were "fine" and "happy" with it.

My mind was reeling with questions and anger.  Did he really believe that all baby girls were born defective?  Should they have to undergo cosmetic surgery to have "prettier" and "cleaner" genitals?  Was it really that hard for a child or any person to spend a few seconds washing down there?  Certainly washing one's hair takes more time, but we all seem to manage that.  How could he look at his perfect little girl and think that something on her was so disgusting and ugly that it had to be cut off?  How could he think that it was "normal" and that "everyone does it"?  How could he put her through the risks of a surgery for such stupid reasons?  He even thinks that removing her parts would prevent infections and diseases.  Following that logic, we should remove ALL teeth because they *might* get cavities, breasts because they *might* get cancer, and well... EVERY other part of the body because they may become infected or diseased some day.  What odd reasoning.  Certainly there are better ways to prevent and deal with such things.  We do it for every other part of the body, why not the genitals?  And why would he assume he has the right to make such a decision for his child?  Her genitals were posing no immediate risk to her, so didn't she have a right to her own healthy body parts?  Isn't it HER body?  Aren't we supposedly all about "rights" and "choices" in America?  Where were his daughter's rights and choices?  He was going to walk right into that doctors office and pay to have his child's most sensitive parts mutilated.  I felt sick to my stomach and just left him with a half-hearted excuse about needing to get home.

You may be sitting there, SHOCKED at how something like this could happen in America.  You may think this isn't even true.  The truth is, the healthy genitals of non-consenting minors are cut apart every single day, and many people don't even think twice about it.  Many people defend the decision to do so with every fiber of their being.  Many people even have it done to their child without really even knowing WHY.  They don't even think twice about it.  I've encountered numerous people who feel just like "my friend" in this story, and use the very same reasons that he did.  The one thing I lied about is the child's gender.  When this story is told about a baby girl, most people would be HORRIFIED and would want to see the parents imprisoned for mutilating their child.  However, when we talk about a baby boy, suddenly it is a parent's "choice", and supposedly a valid and legal one at that.  WHY? 

Why do we protect our baby girls like mother bears, but throw our sons under the knife every day?  Because his penis is ugly?  Because it is dirty?  Because it is different from his father's?  Because it *might* become infected someday?  Because his wife will be glad?  Because its what everyone else does?  Because its "no big deal and it doesnt hurt anyway"?  Because its "just a useless piece of skin anyway"?  Wrong.  Just like every part of the female genitalia has purpose, function, and sensation, so does the male foreskin.  And hello... there are these lovely things called soap and water readily available to us.  We are WASHABLE people!  You wouldn't dare let a doctor or any other person suggest that your daughter's genitals were ugly, gross, and unneccesary.  Why do we allow such nonsense with our sons?  Many of us don't.  Most of the world, in fact, and now about half of Americans.  Those who DO have circumcisions performed on their sons, operate under the assumption that it is just the normal thing to do.  It is not.  It was, for a very short time, considered "normal" in a few parts of the world.  It was promoted heavily during the times that masturbation was seen as dirty and even dangerous to the body and mind.  It was believed that circumcision would stop boys from masturbating.  Some doctors even recommended it for American girls for a time.  Then later, as people realized that circumcision did not stop masturbation, they tried coming up with other "reasons" to mutilate our boys.  Myths sprung up like weeds.  Its time for the insanity to stop.  Its time for the sexism to end.  In a time where we've fought for the rights of minorities, children, and women, we've left one portion of our population out.  We've trampled on the human rights of our baby boys, and we've done it holding our heads high and justifying ourselves. 

Wake up people.  It is nearly 2010.  We should be smarter than this.  If you read my story above and were horrified for the little girl, but sit there and justify the same thing being done to boys, congratulations, you are a raging sexist. 

If this story has made you think, even just a little, thank you.  Thank you from me, from the men who resent being circumcised as babies, from the parents who regret having it done to their child, and from the babies of this world who won't have to endure such a travesty because of increasing awareness.  Please check out the links below regarding this issue.  There are countless more, but I trust that if you're interested enough, you'll find them.

http://www.nocirc.org/

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/

http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/

http://drmomma.blogspot.com/

108 comments:

Anonymous said...

beautiful!

Jeannie said...

After circumcising my first son without a second thought, I was surprised by the amount of anguish with which I wrestled when it came time to decide for my second son. I could not reconcile that God would give a boy an "unnecessary" foreskin. It's not a "natural" procedure. I couldn't bring myself to give someone else an order to hurt my baby unnecessarily. I began to pray about it and immediately God answered, 'I Am the God of nature; and *I* ordered it for *My* boys (back in the day).' It didn't mean that I had to do it, but it made me realize that all of my accusations counted against God, too. God never ordered it for females. There is a huge difference. You can't see that because of how emotional you are about this subject.

Rich Angell said...

Brava! If I wanted to be circumcised I'd have axed for it. See my interviews on this subject: Peaceful Beginnings http:/tinyurl.com/ya27sec ; and Elena Tonetti Vladimirova http:/tinyurl.com/ybz3skp

Stephanie said...

FANTASTIC!!!! Thanks for this!

I am the proud mother of an INTACT little boy!!!

Anonymous said...

Fabulous blog!
Definitely passing this around :)

P.S. by all means teach your children to wash their genitals, but perhaps not with soap? :\

Anonymous said...

I agree that baby boys who have no reason to be circumsised should not be however, my little boy had a medical issue that required him to have one done at 2 years old or else risk losing his kidneys. I don't think that this has been addressed and it makes me feel as though what I did to save my son's life and keep him healthy is being looked down upon when in fact, it was done with the love of a mother for her baby. I will continue to support the right of a baby to be "natural" without a circumcision...I just hope that those baby boys who need to be circumcised for their health don't get treated any differently because of it

maria said...

Great post. The only thing I would say is that intact penises don't need washing until they have retracted and this processshould be left to happen on its own.

Jill said...

Great post! Although I wish you had mentioned that you don't have to DO anything to an intact penis while the foreskin is still fused...because I hear that excuse too: "I don't want to have to fiddle with it!" YOU DON'T! No retracting, no cleaning, no nothing. By the time that is necessary, the boy is usually old enough to do it himself.

Van Lewis said...

And thank YOU! Keep on writing! Keep on fighting! Join us at the 17th annual protest against human genital mutilation at the US Capitol in Washington DC from March 29 - April 3, 2010.

Caroline said...

Great job, Woman Uncensored. I will be passing this on!

Anonymous said...

Thank you SO VERY MUCH for this post. Maybe some people will change their minds given the altered perspective.

Rebekah Costello said...

Fan-freaking-tastic article!

nhguy78 said...

thank you.

nothing else just thanks.

:)

Anonymous said...

We had both of our boys circumsised,as it was our right to make that decision for our children.

You mentioned choices and rights concerning a persons body so I hope you are as ANGRY about abortion.

Since having a circumcision does not cause any problems I am always amazed at how angry some folks get about it.

We sat down, looked at our options and chose what we chose. Someone else, you, has the right to do the same and I certainly do not judge them or you for doing so.

If the procedure caused harm or complications I could see your point but I have seen nothing legitimate that says it does. I am circumcised, and have no adverse reactions or effects because of it.

I guess I am a raging sexist! You worry about your kids and let others worry about theirs. If they are being harmed, then interject.

I still respect your opinion about the topic.

Patricia Robinett said...

Bravo, Rachele! Thanks so much for this wonderful essay.

Did you know they used to circumcise little girls in Kansas? Yes, Blue Cross Blue Shield paid for it until 1977.

From the author of the soon-to-be-released expanded and edited "The Rape of Innocence: Female Genital Mutilation and Circumcision in the USA" ...

Love, Patricia Robinett

Laura McIntyre said...

Male circumcision leaves me feeling sick , the thought of female circumcision makes me actually be sick.
I don't understand them, why put your poor helpless baby through unneeded pain?

David Wilson said...

Stop Infant Circumcision Society
www.StopInfantCircumcision.org

Doctors Opposing Circumcision Statement on HIV/Circumcision
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/info/HIVStatement.html

www.MGMbill.org
Bill to end male genital mutilation

WomanUncensored said...

Thank you everyone for your comments.

Yes, I did fail to specify on the washing issue. By washing, I didn't mean retracting and then washing. Anyone who doesn't know, an intact penis should only be washed just like a finger, nothing special. The boy himself should be the only one to retract his foreskin, and that will happen much later in childhood, long after parents are responsible for the bathing.

As far as religious excuses for circumcision, I'm not sure if you've ever actually opened a Bible from what you say.
This writer sums it up pretty simply: http://www.cirp.org/pages/cultural/glass2/

WomanUncensored said...

PS: I think it goes without saying that there is a huge difference between a routine cosmetic circumcision and a truly medically needed one. In circumstances where there really is no other way, I would no sooner judge a parent for it than I would judge a parent who needed to get a tooth pulled for their child, their appendix removed, a cleft lip repaired, or whatever.

I can't say I've ever heard of the situation mentioned where a circumcision was needed in order to save the kidneys, but I'd be interested in hearing more about it if anyone is willing to share.

TD said...

Looks like you've got the requisite folks with cultural blinders on, offering nothing but myths, apologias and abortion deflections. Fortunately, those people are diminishing in number. In another couple generations, hopefully routine infant circumcision will be as rare as it is in 85% of the rest of the world, and we can teach our boys that they have value in our society.

Thanks for this post, WomanUncensored. Quite a debut! I will be following your blog with interest! :)

Andi said...

Response to Annoymous:
It actually does do harm, can be botched, can cause a life of pain. Google botched circumcision or death by circumcision. It is more common than you think. You may not even recognize the minor adverse effects caused from your own circumcision. (A lower pain threshold, less pleasure, etc...)

I would strongly encourage a parent to get informed, do some research, and not rely on their own experience or belief system alone to make this decision. All parents can do is make decisions based on what they know.

How can anyone believe that an unnecessary cosmetic surgery on an infant is in any way harmless or acceptable?

Yours may have turned out fine, you may be happy with your circumcision. You may not know what you are missing, or what it could be like with a foreskin, because you never knew.

By doing nothing to your child's intact penis as an infant you are simply giving him the choice. He is able to make an informed decision later in life. (You don't have to make a 'choice', let that be your child's decision). If it is important for religious, personal, and/or physical reasons he can and will have it done. An adult circumcision is a rare thing but can and has been done. I have heard many males protest this as inhumane to do to an adult. AGHAST! Shock! Ouch! Is an infant's pain threshold different than an adult? We now have the research that says that this trauma done early can have lasting damaging effects well into adult hood. We only 'think' it is okay to do to an infant because the child can not speak to what they are going through. If we listen we would hear them say "STOP"!

Your child will thank you for listening, looking, asking, researching, and making an informed decision.

Oh, for everyone else, check out "Penn and Teller's Circumcision is Bull****" show. They humorously discuss a way around the "I want my son to look like me" argument. I tell anyone and everyone I know that if that is your issue you can grow your foreskin back and thus look like your son.

Anonymous said...

BRAVO to commenter Andi! Couldn't have said it better myself.

WiseWoman said...

Again I am so proud of you. Speaking up for those who cannot speak for themselves. . .learning. . . sharing. . . and facing the ridicule in order that we may have a better world. There is hope for our planet because of who you are. Gloria Lemay, Vancouver BC

Anonymous said...

As a European, one would expect me to be "un-cut" and I am intact. Proud of it too! Particularly living in America. My son is American and is as equally perfect as the day he was brought into this world - the way nature intended. I respect the article and derived pleasure from it. It's nice to see that the religious far right are out in force trying to detract from the argument by throwing curved balls in relating to abortion.

As far as I am aware, the article was about circumcision............not abortion. Besides the point.

A very close friend of my wife had her baby boy "done" to quote her. My wife asked her if she went into the room to witness the procedure to which she replied that she had not because she was uncomfortable having to listen to the screams. That sums it up for me.

Anonymous said...

For Christians who think they are supposed to circumcise their sons: the Bible is *very* clear on the issue that we are not to. Our covenant is through the blood of Jesus. Our "circumcision", as Christians, is of the heart, not of the penis.
If you are unconvinced, please read Galatians 5 before using God or the Bible as an excuse for snipping your sons.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like a small percentage of the females in this country are getting an accurate message on this one sided mutalation which most females in this country are all for. I applaud those that had an open mind to search and see the truth. It just goes to show you that most women in this country don't know 1/4 as much about the male anatomy as they think they do.

Anonymous said...

I'm circumcised. And NOT happy with it. Sure my mother THOUGHT she was doing a good thing. We now know better.
The decisions should have been MINE and my parents had no right to make it for me.

I've made the decision to regrow my foreskin and I can tell you it does make a world of difference. There is so much more feeling! It's wonderful!
I used to believe the lies that it was good thing and that being whole and intact was dirty. Education corrected me on that matter.

Misty said...

That was a fantastic post. I don't know how ANYONE can say that circumcision doesn't cause harm. 75% of a penis's nerve ending are removed during the amputation of the foreskin, frenulum, and ridged band. Any man that has had 75% of the nerve endings of his genitals amputated has impaired sexual function. Just because someone doesn't know what they're missing, doesn't make it okay. The owner of the penis should be able to decide what to do with his penis. Quite frankly, I wish my in-laws would have kept their damn hands out of my sex life 42 years ago when they decided that my husband's penis wasn't good enough the way it was.

I wrote a much less eloquent post on circumcision a while back that included links to two pictures. I dare anyone to look at those pictures and tell me how one picture is an atrocity and the other is a "parent's choice."
http://homehomeontheroad.blogspot.com/2009/04/something-to-say.html

Kim said...

I love this post.
I'll show it to both my intact son and intact daughter when they're old enough to understand.

Kevin Elks said...

Great article, thanks.

It never ceases to amaze me how some seem to think they have the right to alter by surgery the body of their child, in particular the sexual organs. One of the respondents above mentions their rights as parents to choose to circumcise, why is this, do they actually own their child as property like a chair, a car or similar object? Does their child have the status of 'slave'?

Our children did not ask to be born, it was our fault as parents that they were born so it is 'our' duty to nurture them and protect them until they are able to make decisions of their own. How can any parent 'choose' to perform irreversible surgery on a helpless child and claim they have the right to do something the adult the child will become (if the child survives) might not approve of and may consider it has done lasting harm? What about the rights of that adult?

In the UK it is mainly Jews and Muslims that mutilate their boys sex organ, unfortunately being neither I was sexually mutilated as a baby and regretted it all my long life, I have and continue to suffer from it. My brother was spared the vile practice, fortunately.

For those that dispute the fact that 'circumcision' is dangerous, a baby boy died 15 minutes after his circumcision here in London, England and our National Health Service abandoned the practice of circumcision way back in 1949.

The UK has a healthier population than the circumcised USA, less HIV than the USA (higher than the rest of the intact Europe because our NHS was sold contaminated blood products from the USA 20 years ago). It might be reasonable to conclude that intact prevents disease and that circumcision increases the risk of HIV?

Joseph said...

To the person who left the comment stating that their 2-yr-old had to be circumcised or else risk damage to his kidneys, be aware that you could have been given a crock.

It is likely that your boy had a UTI and you were advised (as is commonly the case) that he be "circumcised or else risk future UTI and kidney infection."

Know that right now, the situation in the US is that doctors are more knife-happy than ever, and that they jump at any and every excuse to "recommend" circumcision.

Unfortunately, due to the influx of immigrants from the Middle East, there are also foreskin un-friendly doctors making their way into the UK.

Realize you could have been lied to. The need to excise the entire foreskin from a child is extremely rare, and is only necessary in certain cases where infection is recurring.

To everyone, educate yourselves on the care of boys and their normal, intact organs. It's really not that hard, no harder than taking care of uncircumcised girls. Actually, UTIs are more common in girls, but they're easily treatable in both sexes.

Restoring Tally said...

As a man who was circumcised at birth, I really wish my parents had not decided to have me cut. I am restoring my foreskin. The more I restore, the more ticked off I get at the injustice of circumcision of infant boys.

Thanks to articles like this, the circumcision culture will change in the US. Unfortunately, the pro-circumcision campaign is growing stronger, both in Africa and the US. But, I believe education is the best defense against that campaign.

Joseph said...

Do parents have "rights" to circumcise their daughters? Just how far do parents have "rights" to mutilate their children?

And how far are doctors expected to comply with a parent's "decisions?"

As circumcision is not medically necessary in healthy, non-consenting individuals, how is it doctors are performing circumcisions, let alone letting parents think it's a "choice?"

No, not all choices you make are correct merely because you are a parent. Parents screw up all the time. This is why there are child abuse laws.

Quite a few women in Africa who have been circumcised react in the same way you do. "I'm cut and I'm OK, and I don't see what the big deal is." We have the audacity to point to Africa and scream bloody mutilation, but refuse to take a look at our own custom.

Answer this question: How would you react if female circumcision were an "option" in this country? If circumcision weren't an "option" at the hospital you went to, would you leave and find an establishment where it was?

No, unless it is an actual medical necessity, parents have no rights to be making this "option." As it is elective cosmetic surgery, infant circumcision shouldn't even be performed by people who call themselves doctors, let alone give you that option.

Remember that up until it was banned, FGM was still an "option" on the table for parents; didn't make it OK.

Perhaps you shouldn't be judged as a parent, but then again, perhaps maybe you should. We do not look kindly on parents that "decided" to molest their children. We do not look kindly on the father who raped his own daughter. At some point the judging has to begin.

You can't be judged if you were truly mislead. WERE you, or are you using "parental choice" as an alibi because you knew well in advanced you wanted to mutilate your children?

If you have "seen nothing legitimate" that says that circumcision has caused harm, then perhaps you weren't looking hard enough.

Look again. Know that at least 200 babies a year die in the US due to circumcision complications. We don't really know how many children die as a result of circumcision complications because deaths due to circumcision are often misreported to cover a doctor's ass and so that the myth that "circumcision does no harm" continues. Know that this year there have been a few law suits against doctors for the loss of the glans in a few children. There were also a couple of reported deaths.

Just because you have had no "adverse reactions" due to your circumcision does not make it right. Taking a healthy, non-consenting individual and cutting off part of his genitals is genital mutilation, and it is intrinsically wrong, whether or not you have problems, whether or not you remember it.

Female circumcision would not be justified in this country if it were performed by "trained professionals," in sterile hospitals, with clean utensils. It would not be justified because it was performed in infancy when "the child doesn't remember." It would not be justified because the little girl grew up, didn't remember and "didn't have any problems."

"You worry about your kids and let others worry about theirs. If they are being harmed, then interject."

Should child services step out of people's lives then? Should parents be able to do EVERYTHING to their children?

Look, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, circumcision is deliberate harm on a child.

People like this author, people like me WILL interject.

Get used to it.

PS - No one is judging you if you truly wanted the best for your sons. Just know that you were mislead. Mutilating your children shouldn't BE a choice, and doctors shouldn't be presenting it as such.

Anonymous said...

Fabulous post, you really have a calling!

Sarah said...

As the mother of five intact children, I thank you for writing such a great piece. Would it be okay if I posted a link to this from my website?

www.geneabirth.com and it would be under my circumcision page. Please email if that would be okay at sarah@geneabirth.com

Thank you!
Sarah

WomanUncensored said...

To everyone:

Please feel free to link to my blog! I'd especially love it if you let me know about it in a comment so I can visit your site too :-) Thanks for all the great feedback! This has already reached FAR more eyes than I ever expected it to, and it's not even 2 days old! You all rock!

Ron said...

As the father of two intact girls I thank you.

To anyone whose child "needed" a circumcision; PLEASE buy a lottery ticket because things happen to you that are incredibly unlikely. Only one in 10,000 ADULTS (m or f) will need a foreskin amputation (to treat BXO/LS that has not responded to Protopic ointment). The only indication for foreskin surgery in a child is inability to urinate (and ballooning of foreskin during urination is NOT a disorder) or possibly gangrene. Make sure a doctor HAS a foreskin before accepting any medical advice about one.

Anonymous said...

This is an excellent post. Your points are all very valid. Parents right now somehow have the right to mutilate their sons but where is the line drawn?
As for religion, let the child grow up and make their own, informed decision about the issue. People are not born with religious beliefs or the desire to have an important part of their natural body removed for no reason.

TD said...

By correlating data from the rest of the intact world, we know that an intact man has a 6 in 100,000 LIFETIME risk of ever needing surgical intervention on the prepuce.

That's a 0.006% total lifetime risk.

To contrast, the lifetime risk of being killed by lightning is 1 in 6,250.

Heck, even the most conservative circumcision complication rates are far higher than 0.006%. Why would any parent gamble with the reproductive organs of their children? Seems pretty counter-intuitive.

Jessica said...

Thank you for wroting it! I hope you make at least a few people stop and think about what they're doing. I'm a mom to one intact baby girl and on intact baby boy :)

The Noble Fat N Happy One said...

beautifully said. thank you so much for writing this so i can link everyone i know.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for this! If only every expecting parent could read this before they made a choice they might regret (or their son might regret). Why can so many people not understand that it isn't a parents choice to make. To the other commenter, it can/does do harm, I almost died because of my circumcision. Okay, I'll stop, no rant today. You said it so well I don't think I need to add anything. Thank you again for a wonderful post.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for writing this!

Anonymous said...

Excellent blog entry. Please continue to speak out, and please never stop!

Mandie said...

I linked this in my blog. I hope that is ok!

Anonymous said...

I thoughtlessly allowed my son to be circumcised. I soon came to deeply regret that decision for all the moral and philosophical reasons stated here. But also for practical, personal reasons.

Firstly, his penis has a great deal of obvious scar tissue that's concerning; I wonder how much sensitivity he's lost. And until he was about 2, it was very difficult to keep clean since, when flaccid, the tip would pull itself into the base. Fluff and hairs would get trapped around the base of the head, and the skin that was pulled under the other skin often had a yeast infection. He clearly found it uncomfortable for me to clean it as much as was needed to keep it healthy. Sometimes I would need to hold him down to clean it. It was the only "force" I ever used with him in any part of our life, and it literally broke my heart to have to choose between keeping his mutilated penis as healthy as possible while perhaps doing even more damage to his emotional health regarding his sex organs. :'( So much for the pernicious "easier to clean" myth!!!!

He's a preschooler now and discovering the joys of having a penis to explore; he loves "his friend" and has no idea what he's missing. But I do. And someday he will too. (Is this a case where ignorance truly is bliss? And until what age?)

The guilt I feel is sometimes overwhelming. It has even impacted my sex life since sometimes now when I look at my husband's circumcised penis (which he says he's perfectly happy with), I think of what I consented to be done to my son, and waves of guilt and regret pass through me. :(

Anyone have advice on how to cope with this guilt? And how and when to discuss all this with my son?

Oh, how I wish I'd spent more time researching this before he was born!!!!

Anonymous said...

To the person who steadfastly believes circumcision of the male foreskin was harmless...how's that again?

We all seem to know that removing the clitoral hood is horrific.

Hey, what a thought...maybe men are SUPPOSED to have some feeling in two areas....just like women! Wow....

restorfan said...

For any who read this and think you're "fine" if you've been circumcised - you're operating from confirmation bias. Understand the full effects of circumcision:

* 20,000 pleasure-producing nerve endings are excised
* 50-75% of the skin on the penis is removed
* Keratinization of the remaining mucousal skin and glans immediately sets in - this is a layer of skin 20x thicker than the glans and mucousal skin itself that now sits between you and your pleasure-producing nerves
* It can take up to 18 months for the keratinization to finally silence the irritation of the sensitive exposed glans scraping against diapers and clothing. The lifetime emotional and sexual effect of this experience on the developing brain is unknown.
* Studies show the owner of a circumcised penis will use greater thrusting force during sex than an intact man - compromising the enjoyment of his partner
* The circumcised penis removes the natural lubrication of the vagina during sex due to the fish-hook effect of the corona (lower edge of the glans where it meets the shaft)
* Progressive desensitization of the penis will occur due over the life of its owner

I could go on. You only think your function is "normal" because you don't know anything else. Restored men report significantly increased sensitivity as well as a host of sensations that were totally impossible prior to restoration; their partners report improved sex lives and greater comfort.

These are some of my reasons for restoring.

Michelle said...

You know, if God had meant for boys to have foreskins, they would have been born that way!

;)

Signed,

Mother of a boy and a girl, both whole as God made them

Anonymous said...

My baby brother almost died when he was circumcised soon after his birth. The fact that he didn't is a blessing, and it caused doctors to learn of an underlying condition. Wonderful. But if he'd died, I'm sure that the discovery would have been of little comfort to our family. We're expecting our first baby in June, and my highly religious family doesn't yet know that we've "chosen" to leave all of our children as intact as possible. I decided long ago that I would never mutilate my child(ren) just because "everyone does it" or "the Bible tells us to."

Anonymous said...

When I was pregnant with my oldest son, I didn't know much about foreskin function or how rare infant circumcision was in most of the world - all I knew was that I didn't want my son to experience any needless pain as a newborn and that a circumcision could be chosen by him later, but couldn't be undone if I forced the procedure on him.

Both my OB and pediatrician said "Good!" when told we didn't want him circumcised. My friend who was a nursing student and had just witnessed a circumcision said the same. However the reaction of family or even utter strangers in places like public bathrooms were disturbing. Nothing like changing your five month old son's diaper in a restroom and having two women you don't even know start harassing you about not having him circumcised and how "dirty" that was and that I needed to "correct" this immediately. It was fun to see the looks on their faces as I gathered him up and responded that he was perfect the way God made him and I wouldn't cut off part of a baby girl's body so why would I do that to his?

6 years later, his cousin born the same year has had multiple UTI's and issues with adhesions despite being circumcised and my son has never had a single UTI or foreskin issue. The same family members who criticized us for keeping DS intact keep wondering why he is so well and his cousin's circ didn't "work". I keep telling them it is because circumcision breaks penile function, it doesn't "fix" anything :P

Anonymous said...

This was really interesting! I'm from the UK and its unheard of here to circumcise a boy. So thankfully I'm intact and so are all my friends and the other males in my family.
Never had any problems with it and I love my foreskin LOL

Z'sMum said...

For those parents wanting their sons to 'look like everyone else', I'm from Australia and I can ensure you that cutting off boys' foreskin is very rare these days as I believe it is in other western countries. So rare, you will have trouble finding a doctor to perform it. Unless your sons never plan on leaving America I suggest you leave them 'intact' so they really can look like everyone else!

mikki roo said...

I'm from Canada and it's not nearly as common here as it is in the US to circumcise boys - I'd say maybe 50/50. When my first son was born in 2003, it was an issue I had never thought about. My husband is intact and so I just left it... as my son grew older, I wished it was easier to clean and I decided with my 2nd son in 2005, that I would go ahead with the procedure. Thankfully my family Dr had 3 little boys of his own and told me there was no medical reason to do it, in fact 60% of Canadian parents no longer do. I was so relieved to realize that I could do this and have the support of my Doctor... as well as knowing I did the right thing by my son!

Jock Doubleday said...

"Spontaneous Creation: 101 Reasons Not to Have Your Baby in a Hospital"

http://spontaneouscreation.org

Brittney said...

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for this post! I will be sharing it in my blog (www.truetalesfromthetrenches.blogspot.com.). I'll be following eagerly!

Anonymous said...

Great article!!! I posted it on my facebook, let's save some foreskins! And here is an article about how foreskins ARE needed in sexual intimacy.

http://www.penis-resources.com/blog/physiology/uncircumsized-penis-and-female-pleasure/

Jane said...

Bravo *cheer* *cheer* *cheer*
I am HUGELY Against circumscion of ANY baby/child
Hey if you want to chop bits off yourself when you are an adult and are the one making the choice to YOUR body then go for it with my blessings, just like those people who pierce everypart of their body or color it in !.. (I don't really give my blessings LOL - I don't really get it - but each to their own!)
But a baby/child has NO say, and I will advocate for the rest of my life for them NOT To be circumsised.

Its Barbaric, its outdated, its unnecessary and it makes my heart hurt.

Yes I had a bababy boy and yes I am PROUD to say he is UN circ'ed. And i beleive with every fiber of my being that one day when he is old enough he will thank me.

Oh and hes nearly 3 and never had any UTI or problems with his willy. Its all about keeping it clean as you would a girls genitals, and teaching the child how to clean themselves as you do a girl....

I hate circumsicion with a passion..

Its becoming very rare in Australia as well...but still happens of course..and you still get the nasties that pop up when they defend their right to hack their sons penis about !...

Guilt !

I have heard so many on chat forums , announce how GUILTY They felt , how they couldnt be in the procedure room when it was done, how much the baby SCREAMED OR Didn't scream (from PURE SHOCK) and was silent for days, quiet withdraw, but as far as they were concerned it meant that the procedure was a success..

Id like to take those people and chop a part of their anatomy of, just with a local..and see how they like it..

Oh and don't even get me started on the adoptive parents that do this to their adopted baby - omg that is so much worse...Its already horrendous if its your bio child but to do that to an adopted child after the baby being removed from his mother and being in shock from that.....

sigh...

(thankyou for a great article!) xx

Dana Seilhan said...

I had a son in 1996. Back then the Internet as used by ordinary folks (as opposed to hardcore geeks) was in its infancy and there wasn't a lot online about circumcision. It never even occurred to me to look. It was something everyone did and I figured he'd be healthier in the long run. So he was circumcised.

In 2004 when I was pregnant with my daughter and didn't know her sex yet (I didn't find out til she was born), I told her father flat out that we would not be getting it done. He's circed, but he agreed with me. Not like he would have had any say anyhow. (In Ohio, if you've never married the father of your child, YOU have total physical and legal custody, by default, even if the father has been identified.)

I doubt I will have another child but no way will I have the procedure done if I do and it's a boy.

It's sad because I dated a lot when I was younger, right up until I met my son's father and married him, and I was involved with both circed and intact men. I won't gross people out by elaborating, but trust me, there IS a difference. Think about the difference between a finger with a callus and a finger without one. It is very much like that.

In retrospect I can't understand why a circed guy would *not* have lost sensation, and why an intact guy would *not* have more sensation. It makes no sense. Someone who was cut as a baby wouldn't know any better either, because the loss of sensation would not be available to his conscious memory.

Anonymous said...

I am so glad that this is becoming spoken about. I had my first son in 1988 and was only seventeen at the time not knowing I had a choice opted for his circumsition. Becauce I was breast feeding him and because of his jantice he was kept in the nursery under the billirubin lights the first 48 hours so I had to feed him in a room right next to the room they used for the infint boys to be snipped. As I walked past the room to nurse my son I was apalled and sickened at what I saw. Three little metal beds with three little babies strapped not swaddled diaperless waitting their surgery. When I realised what the babies had to go through I vowed that if I ever had another son I would never make the same choice again. I now have a three year old son who is uncircumsized and neither he nor his circumsized father have any issue with it. He completely understands that he cleans that part of himself just like any other part of his body and we as parents are positivly certain that this was the only chooice we could make as informed loving parents.

Steve said...

Yet another unhappily "circumcised" (Too clean of a word, I prefer mutilated, although that doesn't win you over many people in debates who believe it's harmless.) male here...

I really can't understand this practice at all. All of my life I had grown up believing that I was au naturale and nothing had ever been altered, what a shock it was for me to learn that was actually an incorrect belief all along... It took a long time for me to even learn of the fact, around until I was 16 years of age and going on 17. It's appalling that nobody ever told me and it took THAT long. Though I suppose it's yet another case of "ignorance is bliss", although I disagree since it fosters turning a blind eye to the problem. I felt betrayed, really... I went through a host of psychological problems, (Which still affect me, just not as much anymore.) the typical symptoms of depression and anti-social rage bouts. I recall being SO depressed and hopeless as to cry for days, so it was like an actual grieving stage, and I even self-harmed myself a little in the midst of it. Looking back, that was indeed stupid of me to do, but it happened regardless. Like how the circumcision simply happened. I'm not as distraught over it anymore, but I do want to do what I can to reverse the damage it has done to me as a person and physically. I think it's an alien concept (and probably people having trouble seeing infants as actual persons again that should have BASIC protective rights of their own) that you'd need to sever a body part off a healthy infant just because it MAY become an issue later. This can also turn out to become a huge emotionally damaging issue that isn't nearly so easy to correct. Such stupid rationales!

Going Full Hippie said...

I"ll be linking to my blog with this. I have had readers make the "I want him to look like his daddy" argument, and it makes me angry. Thanks for your eloquent words. Keep on keepin' on. Peace.

Anonymous said...

I wrote a comment yesterday that you didn't allow. It was respectful, but had a contrary opinion to yours in the post. I'm disappointed that you are censoring any comments that have a contrary opinion to yours, but you are allowing any comments that promote your opinion. Are you trying to propagandize people, or are you actually interested in a frank discussion on the topic? So much for open mindedness.....

Woman Uncensored said...

Anonymous-

First off, this is my blog: Woman Uncensored, not "random anonymous commenter uncensored".

If you want to disagree with me AND be taken seriously at an opportunity for dialog, its wise to include at least a name so you can be addressed. I get sick of "Dear Anonymous".

Second, you're no sooner going to convince me that male genital mutilation is ethical than you would that slavery is ethical, or that women shouldn't vote.

But really, if you have an educated view to share, feel free. But that doesn't mean I'm going to make it publicly visible. We shall see.

This blog supports the hearts of a lot of moms out there AND mutilated men, and I dont HAVE to allow some random jackass to undermine that.

Lastly, again, this is my blog. I don't do it to please people like you. I don't hold back and coddle. I do not HAVE to address every negative and bitchy comment. No one made you read this, so feel free to disagree, but if you want to rant about it, do it in YOUR space and dont expect me to openly welcome it into MINE if I'm not in the mood.

Desiree Hayes said...

Bravo! Another proud mama to an intact little boy!

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for this! I shared this link on my facebook. I have three beautiful, intact children: two girls and one boy. When my husband and I made the choice to keep our children whole, we never thought we would encounter family members who were insistent upon removing a piece of our beautiful child's genitalia! Beautifully written blog, even my stubborn inlaws can't argue with it!

pmcmil2000 said...

My husband and his family over ruled me and against my wishes had my son surgically altered; Not only did they subject him to pain that in my opinion left him a much sadder child than my first child; however I do differ with your logic; they are doing female circumcisions in America as they are giving their children strong sedatives such as Chlora-Hydrate to put their infants to sleep; we really do need the whistleblower legislation passed for doctors and health care workers; for right now nobody is really protecting us at any age against another family members wishes verses the individual;
Support the anti-bully legislation and support the Whistleblower protection for health care workers.

Anonymous said...

i would have liked my original comment to be published too.

to make a different point, reading through i agree with a pp that if you feel this way about the foreskin, then i hope you campaign just as hard about abortion...a whole life.

that little clot, piece of flesh; how we all start out, must surely be worth more to anybody who loves and breathes.

if the number of people speaking out against circ. were prepared to speak for a whole LIFE!! what a wonderful thing that would be.....

kate
x

Woman Uncensored said...

Kate-

Just because I haven't blogged about abortion, doesn't mean I don't care about the value of human life.

The problem of circumcision isn't diminished by the fact that a million other injustices happen in this world. Do I have to blog about them ALL to justify blogging about ONE?

In fact, I think the issue of abortion gets LOTS of ranting done about it. People even friggin bomb abortion clinics. I don't see anyone being THAT psycho about the right to genital integrity. I think any normal person would agree that there are a lot more people who are aware of the abortion issue than there are people who give a crap about male genital mutilation.

But please, if you feel like more needs to be said about it, feel free to start your own blog about it.

penny75 said...

Thank you so much for sharing this information. People need to know how horrible infant circumcision is. Doctors don't take the time to educate parents and expectant parents tend to believe all kinds of cultural myths. Our country would never allow parents to cut off any other body part of their child, but since circumcision has religious roots (Jewish), it's tolerated. In my opinion, circumcision is abusive and has potential to cause life-ling sexual harm.

Please keep posting these blogs on genital integrity and keep them at the top so people know they have a choice in circumcision and so they know circ. can cause great harm. Too many parents just aren't aware that they have a choice. Be proud of yourself for the good work you are doing. You are helping to make the world a better, more peaceful place for babies.
God bless!

Woman Uncensored said...

Penny-

I, of course, completely agree.

Unfortunately, blogs show up in chronological order, so in order to keep that one at the top, it would have to be the only one I ever write ;-) But I know it has been passed around a LOT on forums and facebook and such, and if people keep that up, it will continue to be read. I also link to it every so often from my own facebook, for anyone that may have missed it.

Erin said...

I have been exploring this issue on my blog lately, too, along with many other AP topics. The big thing I don't understand is when Christian parents claim that they are doing it for religious reasons, "because Jesus was circumcised." I can see that Jews can claim that they do it for religious reasons (although it seems that the circumcisions of today are far more drastic than those in Biblical times)... but the New Testament seems quite clear that circumcision is unnecessary, and in fact, that if you place hope of salvation in it, then you are absolutely wrong in doing so!!

I do not understand *either* side on the abortion issue in relation to circumcision. If you believe abortion is wrong because it inflicts injury (and *death!!!*) on an unconsenting person for non-medical reasons, then you should believe the same about circumcision (although the circumcised baby at least gets to remain living in most cases). Likewise, if you believe it is wrong to do painful surgery on a tiny newborn infant, would you not also believe that it is wrong to kill that same baby a few weeks or months earlier? BOTH procedures directly harm babies and are not often medically necessary!! I look forward to the day when both abortion *and* routine infant circumcision are illegal in this country!

I would love to read more about circumcision for Jews... it is the one case that I cannot totally see it being made ilegal, especially if they perform them the way they used to (just a snip and not removing the entire foreskin!)...

I noticed in the comments above that you asked that we link to ourselves... I just linked to several posts on this blog myself. Under the "Why Do I" tag on my blog, I have written about why I practice various AP tenants: www.mommyerin.blogspot.com

Ashley said...

I love this! GOOD JOB!

Anonymous said...

my Jewish pediatrician proudly told us that she did not circumcise her sons - I don't believe it makes them any less.
- proud parent of 2 "intact" boys

AnneTanne said...

Circumcision of a GIRL????
Here in Belgium, once in a while a boy gets a circumcision, but that's done ever less, because there aren't many medical reason on a young age.
But - being a doctor - I never heard of the circumcision of girls, except for a lot of countries in Afrika (and loudly protesting that).

Tyler Wainright said...

Great article and makes me glad I have 2 beautiful little girls

MalContent said...

Getting this procedure is actually one of my very earliest memories. I remember I wasn't overly thrilled about it at the time. But, you know - it's not like I'm aware of missing out on anything. I haven't any basis for comparison. So I honestly can't feel very outraged about the sexual pleasure my parents "deprived" me of; besides which, I currently get quite a bit of pleasure - I can only imagine the trouble I'd get into if there was MORE. *grin*

Anyway, I see a lot of people agreeing and the ones that don't seem to be getting all huffy about it. FIgured what was missing was "meh". (On the subject, not the article.)

Kat said...

FANTASTIC article. I'll definitely be passing it on. Sometimes it helps to be able to send a friend something someone else has written on the subject. I think the perspective will help people realize that is is just as cruel to circumcise boys as girls. Just because something is *accepted* doesn't make it *right*.

Happy to see that I'm in such good company, too. So many parents not circumcising, so many well-educated replies! And for the others... well, it makes you think, doesn't it?

john said...

No, I would never even think about it. Though I don't have a daughter but I do have a son and I never considered having him circumcised. Its a very unnatural thing to do to a baby. Its sad that so many healthy babies are subjected to such a horrendous thing...what a cruel way to welcome a baby to the world. I am angry at the people who allow this atrocity. Shame on the medical personell who are suppose to 'First Do No Harm' Shame on those who advocate for, solicit, perform, and profit from infant circumcision. No non consenting individual should have healthy genital tissue taken from their body.

gigglebunny said...

Thank you so much for such a well written article! I love your style and intend to share this with others. My boys are both intact, and although I was less informed with my first son as I was with my second, some instinct prevented me from going through with it for him, and for that I am profoundly grateful. People in North America (I'm Canadian) need to be educated! It needs to be thought of as inhumane for boys as well as girls. Thanks again :)

gv said...

Jeannie as the mother of 3 beautifully whole boys I'm really glad I don't share your god with his ridged, dogmatic and cruel requirements.
Because if this was your gods answer I feel sick -
*God answered, 'I Am the God of nature; and *I* ordered it for *My* boys (back in the day).' *

Besides it's stupid, why would he give it to boys if he wanted it cut off. Isn't he all powerful and perfect? Can't he make a pre-cut penis?

Shanti said...

Thank you so much for this wonderful essay! I love it. I had quite a fight on my hands when I told my husband I didn't want our son to be circumcised. In the end, I won. The moment our little boy was born, and my husband saw him for the first time he agreed that you just shouldn't mess with the perfection that God creates.

Anonymous said...

I live in the UK, and I remember when I found out that men are circumcised in america (i was about 10) I couldnt believe it! It just seemed so odd. And that feeling has never really gone away. It confuses us British!
Just imagine all the fun circumcised men are missing out on :(

Michelle said...

Oh my word, BRAVO! So well written! Thank you so much for this. I'm bookmarking it so I can send the link to anyone I think should read it.

Boxie said...

Just wondering where the info has come from that states that circumcision results in less pleasure for the male in question? I have done a bit of research, but can not find any reputable articles, nor how they measure this.
Kind Regards.

EBethToThePowerOf? said...

My Mom is an R.N. and has worked OB for many years. Contrary to what you are probably thinking, this made her the biggest natural birth/natural child rearing advocate I knew (before I made mommy friends). She came over for dinner one night and went through all the reasons why circ. was stupid, pointless and harmful to baby boys. What they look/feel like for the baby. The board they strap the babies to. How they interfere with breastfeeding. The incredibly high rates of complications from them she sees in the hospital (they are botched waaaay more than most parents realize). How the STD research is flawed and how the idea of prophylactic REMOVAL of a BODY PART to get a 30% or lower reduction of a specific strain of HIV that is only prevalent in Africa is laughable, when wearing a condom would provide much better and sensible prevention. She feels that parents shouldn't be allowed to have it done unless they are in the room with their baby the whole time--she says the crying is like torture and they pass out for hours afterward, in shock. After that dinner, my husband never brought it up again, and we happily refused to do it to our baby boy. He is 3 and I've barely ever touched it in terms of cleaning, and it's completely healthy--no problems at all. I have a 17 month old daughter now and it makes me nauseous to read a description of doing something similar to her.

Anonymous said...

People seem to think that intactivists are morally opposed to circumcision. They are not. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a circumcised penis. Its a legitamate medical procedure. What they disagree with is conducting said procedure on individuals without their consent, against their will, when there is no legitimate medical necessity to do so. That is the crux of it. If someone took your child from you and cut off a part of his penis for no reason, it would be considered sexual abuse. Hand that man a doctors certificate and it becomes right? You wouldn't tattoo your child without their consent, let them choose about their penis too. Its only fair. And please PLEASE as a friend of a circd man who died from AIDS the ONLY thing that prevents std transmission is a CONDOM!!!

Anonymous said...

YES YES YES Thankyou!!!My boy is intact.If you believe in God he supposedly made us in his perfect image,why then would he do this to only mutilate a newborn soul.If you believe in evolution don't you think we would have evolved away thru the years this tiny piece of skin?We haven't it's needed,this traumatic procedure is NOT needed.Wake up people,cherish your sons as they are made be it by God or evolution.They are perfect they way they are...
I am no activist by any means just a simple thinking person and that's as basic as it gets..

McApril said...

*Thank you!*

My husband regrets that his mother chose to circumcise him and wants our future sons to make the choice to be circumcised if they would like to be - but we are not going to make that decision on their behalf.

Un-cut, Un-circumcised, WHOLE.

julie said...

Thanks for this wonderful article. Girls have the right to intact genitals, boys should have that same right.

Anonymous said...

AWESOME POST ! THANKS !

Christy said...

Excellent post! I fail to see how people can support male circumcision while opposing female circumcision. They both involve amputating healthy genital parts! Would anyone who supports circ want to be strapped down while someone cuts off part of their genitals?! It's lunacy!

By the way, in response to comments above, I am one of the many intactivists who is also appalled by abortion. Both involve major industries preying upon vulnerable parents, withholding information and lying to them as there is much money to be made from both the "procedures" and the sale of the "products." Both involve horrific assaults upon helpless babies and children.There are also some very evil people who derive enjoyment form doing abortions and circumcisions.

Of course, your post had no reason to mention abortion. It would have distracted from your superb point. I am upset by many injustices, but I tend to focus on one at a time. For instance, if I'm writing about circ, I don't have any reason to address the many women and children enslaved in the sex trade, but I am very upset by that as well. And so on. I'm surprised that anyone against abortion would support circ and vice versa, but I must trust that they are still uninformed, and would feel differently if they knew the full truth. We must keep speaking out for those who have no voice, whoever they may be.

BEss said...

Thanks for another great post. My daughter has a labial adhesion (has had it since she was 2 weeks old and now- at 2 yrs old- she still has it) and when my friend heard she replied "What?! those can adhede? Maybe we should cut those off a birth too, just to prevent that.". She, of course, was kidding but she made a fantastic point. Just like I would never have my daughter vagina cut apart or mutilated- I could never do it to a son either.

Kelly said...

Just wanted to add my appreciation for this post.

I have been horrified and saddened by the idea of female circumcision for years, but I never equated that horror with male circumcision. Now that I think back, my logic was ridiculous - I accepted male circumcision as a religious right, but female circumcision is also done for religious reasons...so how is one OK and not the other?

After reading posts and articles like this I am absolutely convinced that I would never do this to my son (I have a baby daughter and the very idea of doing something like that to her is unfathomable - why wouldn't it be for a boy?).

Anyway, please just keep getting the word out, everyone who agrees with this. I was talking with my mom recently and she was telling me all about the 'benefits' of circumcision - when I tried to contradict her she got very defensive (I think she didn't want to feel guilty about my brother). She also told me that my sister had her newborn circumcised - why? Because Dad wanted baby to look like him (this even after I sent her an article from Mothering Magazine dealing with the research against circumcision extensively).

It is still at that point where people just do it because that's what you do (and because it is a very lucrative operation and so medical professionals will come up with all kinds of reasons to tell parents that it's good for the kid) - getting the word out there in posts like this will hopefully start to make that change.

Just one more thing - on the comment from mother who feels so guilty about circumcising her son - I have no expert advice, but I want to try to give you some comfort. The truth is, you just didn't know, and you were trying to do the best for your son. Don't let mommy guilt get you down...we have to make agonizing decisions (and mistakes) all the time. If you've seen all of this evidence and refuse to look it in the face and just do it for whatever stupid reason, that's one thing - but that's not what you did. Maybe you could even apologize to your son someday...but just try to do what's best for you both in the meantime. Mommy weighed down with guilt isn't going to be the best for him! :) Anyway, hoping you will be blessed and comforted...

Diary of a Naked Wombat said...

I declare, Sexual Assault!

Anonymous said...

Oh, how I hate the 'kidney infection' excuse. The difference in percentages of UTIs between intact & circ'd infants is miniscule (and as accurate for girl babies as well as boys).

Do you treat a female child with kidney issues to a circumcision? No? Then you're sexist through & through.

If you did it through ignorance (& unwillingness to spend 5 minutes googling those statistics), shame on your Dr's. I suspect that like many parents, you were looking for an excuse to do what you wanted to do.

Kidney issues are treated with antibiotics & other medical interventions, not circumcision. Urologists & nephrologists, however, are paid very well for them, so to them, it's 'why not?'

The foreskin is not a birth defect, nor does it cause UTIs anymore than an intact girl's labia, & the complications (including death) are far more common & damaging than a treated UTI.

Lisa (in Ok) said...

I guess biblical reasons and the fact that a christian tends to follow and teach from the bible isn't enough anymore....or that Jesus himself did it and declared we follow Him...I don't know about you...but that's enough for me!

as for sensitivity...my husband says all the time...i don't know what they are talking about but i love the way you feel inside the minute I touch you! no lackin there!

in the end it's a personal choice...just like keeping ur hair short or long or light or dark....

i'm not sure why ppl get in such an uproar about these issues.

from my experience...the only ones that complain and try to press their views on others are the ones that feel guilty for doing the opposite of what they force down others throats!

Loureen said...

Lisa (in Ok)

"Christians were freed from the Law, including circumcision (Acts 15:1-20). It was described as an almost unbearable yoke on the neck (Acts 15: 10). The yoke, of course, was a sign of slavery and Christians were told not to become entangled with 'a yoke of bondage' (Galatians 5:1-2)."

"Some believe in circumcision because of what they have been told. Christians should consider Paul's words:

God put every different part of the body, just as he wanted it to be.
( 1 Corinthians 12: 18)

If Christians take this to heart they will have strength to resist the circumcision enthusiasts. As someone said to a knife-happy doctor, 'God knows best how to make little boys.'"

As for sensitivity yes your husband still has feeling that goes without saying what he lacks is the tens of thousands of nerve endings he was born with , the very same that would have seen him enjoy sex in all it's glory as nature intended , he will never know though because he never had a chance to experience the heights of sexual pleasure as an intact man many men who have and still received circ including one I know personally say the decrease is significant , one they regret losing , one they wish they were more educated about before being dismembered , lucky for restoration for the men that get partial sensitivity back .

Yes it is personal choice like every other cosmetic procedure it SHOULD BE the persons who's genitals are in question very OWN personal choice and no one else , you choosing for someone else is NOT personal choice .

People are in an uproar my dear because it is a clear violation of human rights , the rights to genital integrity , the rights to ones ownership over ones own body and the clear sexism that haunts little boys ( mainly in the US ) .

No one feels guilty my dear our boys were born perfect so we kept them WHOLE .

Jessica Carew said...

Wow, i'm from Australia and up until a couple of months ago when I found a few groups on Facebook, I was completely oblivious to the amount of debate surrounding circ. That's because here in Aus its almost unheard of! If someone had asked me if I had wanted to circ my two boys I would have politely (or probably not) told them to f*** off LOL! It totally barbaric and really unnecessary... It honestly baffles me! Also, if they'd performed circs in jesus' day as they do today, I cannot understand how baby boys would have survived. Infection and haemorrhage would kill almost all babes it was performed on.

Amy said...

Jesus said that circumcision was done away with in him. He fulfilled the covenant. If you are Christian, presumably you accept Jesus as your Saviour. Jesus was not Christian - how could he be? He was Christ - he was a Jew. Circumcision was done to him, not by him. Interestingly, some of the strongest voices against circumcision also come from the Jewish community, so that's a poor argument too.

There's a good answer to all that here: http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/circumcision.html and more in-depth information here: http://www.noharmm.org/christianparent.htm

You should know that many parents here who speak out against circumcision now, circumcised their own sons before they knew any better, so no judgement is being passed on your past. When you know better, you can do better.

Amy said...

Yeah Jessica, but you guys have Br!an M0rris. That's why New Zealand is better. You can keep the pav, if you keep HIM :P

Vanessa said...

Lisa: When foreskin can grow back, then it will be the same as keeping your hair long or short.

Jesus did it?No, his parents did it to him following their traditions.
You speak of Jesus, but have you read the bible regarding circumcision? or are you just following blindly what people tell you?
Galatians 5:1–11 http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Galatians%205.1-11
"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all."

Galatians 6:11–16 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/Galatians%206.11-16)
"Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ."

1 Corinthians 7:17–20 (http://biblia.com/bible/niv/1%20Corinthians%207.17-20)
"Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised.ach one should remain in the situation which he was in when God called him."

Thirdly:As for your husband, unless he went from being intact to being circ'd later in life he really has no clue what sex would feel like with foreskin..

Ohjess said...

"in the end it's a personal choice...just like keeping ur hair short or long or light or dark...."

Lisa, yes, a PERSONAL choice. Not your parents' choice at birth. Oh and you can't really undo circumcision the way you can choose a different haircut or color, plus haircuts don't hurt or carry and risk of infection, disfigurement, or death. So, wow, circumcision and hairstyles aren't the same at all, are they?

Angie Jackson said...

When I was pregnant with my son, I researched circumcision. I asked men I knew who were un-cut if cleaning was difficult (no) and if they'd rather be cut (no). I looked at the history, studies, and risks.

Then I watched a live-streaming video of the procedure being done, on a tiny infant boy, strapped down in a torture device and screaming. "Doesn't hurt" my ass. You cut through nerves and it'll hurt.

pixie_19 said...

Thank you for posting this! When our little boy was born, our plan was to circumcise. But upon seeing how perfect he was, I began to have doubts. I researched and found PP, and read everything there was about circumcision. The "pros" did not outweigh the cons. There is nothing good or healthy about cutting anyone's genitals. I realised that if I thought my baby was perfect, it was my whole baby, not my baby minus his foreskin. I gave my husband info, and my baby boy is happily intact.

It's HIS penis, I think it's perfect just the way it is, but if when he's older he wants to change it, he has that choice. We, his parents and protectors, did not rob him of his choice over his body. It's all thanks to people like you, Peaceful Parenting, Saving our Sons, etc.

So, again, from the bottom of my heart, and my baby boy's, and any future son I may have, THANK YOU!

XO,

peaceful momma to an intact baby boy

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for posting this. My husband and I totally agree. We decided not to mutilate our son's genitals either. People can be so cruel always giving us a hard time when we tell them he is not circumsized. We believe that god made us in all his glory the way he wanted us to be seen. We also don't believe in braces. There is no purpose other than vanity. It is selfish of a parent to want their child to conform what society thinks they should look like.

Please parents don't peirce your infants ear, mutilate their genitals, or try "fix" a smile that is already beautiful. God bless.

Anonymous said...

I was circumcised, as a baby. As a result, I experience less pleasure in bed, (it takes me far far longer than my partners to "finish") due to a botched job, and a skin bridge on the left side, as well. I wouldn't recommend anyone get the procedure, gender aside, unless there is a solid medical reason.

Mare said...

It's important to remember that women and men are raped....live to tell about it....and many of them are "okay" too. Many of them are NOT okay as well. the point being..... that just because someone claims they are okay and have no negative effects from having their genitals cut at birth....DOES NOT make it okay! the important thing to remember is that babies are not born with a defect by having a normal foreskin....IT'S NORMAL! So why do people continue to justify cutting a normal functional part of their child's anatomy off at birth???? I don't get it.

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